Smoking ban supported by majority of licensees
26 June, 2008
Publican survey reveals 64 per cent in favour of the ban
Despite the majority of licensees losing cash because of the smoking ban, more and more are supporting the measure.
The 1,500 licensees quizzed by CGA Strategy on behalf of The Publican were asked if a year since it arrived in England they supported the ban. A total and 64 per cent answered yes - up seven per cent from the 57 per cent who said they supported the ban from the start.
Nearly half of those quizzed – 48 per cent – said they ‘strongly’ supported the ban.
Tony Payne, chief executive of the Federation of Licensed Victuallers’ Associations, said he was not surprised by the level of support shown.
He said: “We saw the same thing in Ireland when after people got over the initial problems it was seen as the best thing that ever happened.”
The survey also revealed that 65 per cent of licensees would not overturn the ban if they had the power to do so. The other 35 per cent said licensees should have the power to make the decision and that if they did they would allow smoking.
Paul Smith, executive director of Noctis which represents late-night operators, said: “There are plenty of people who saw the ban as an opportunity as well as those who saw it as a threat.
“Like most bans it was generally seen as unpopular at first but now it is here people are working with it.”
But John Madden, executive officer of the Guild of Master Victuallers, said the result did not tally with his direct experience.
“I am surprised that the majority think the ban should stay. I think the majority accept that it is here and have to live with it but I think the people whose trade has suffered as a result are not in support and have lost between 10 to 25 per cent of business.”
Andy Brooks, licensee of the Laughing Fish in Isfield, East Sussex said that the ban has benefited his business.
“Because we serve good quality food there is no question that people who would not come here before the ban are now considering the pub as a place to eat.
“The ban has most definitely had a positive impact and I think to go back would be a retrograde step.”
And Chris Maclean, licensee of The Railway Hotel, in Faversham, Kent, added: “We have all had to do it and the reality is that it was not as damaging as first suggested. In fact the reality is that it is much nicer to run a pub without smoking.”
Readers' comments
Robbo, I'm not aware UKIP are anti-smoking ban so maybe they aren't marketing themselves properly. What I do know is Labour got hammered in the Council elections and promise to "really go back and listen" to the electorate. This must be 'throw away language' (like their Manifesto commitments) because it's not backed up with action. Check out the fuel potests or any smoker that writes to an MP with the facts about smoking who are told effectively to sod off. Many traditional Labour voters are blue collar and enjoy a ciggy with their pint in social hours. The ban has, along with many other nannying bullying anti-democratic Labour policies added to the totsl disenchantment voters have with these Labour creeps. You know full well Labour are hanging onto power on a 'paper technicality' that the Law allows them to run their full term. They have no public support or public mandate right now to continue governing. You mention the latest by-election result where Labour I believe came 5th and lost their deposit. Just about sums them up being grouped in with the also-rans and looney Parties. The smoking ban is a major factor IMHO. And Labour will be slaughtered at next election and won't get a look-in for the next 15 years their bullying, deaf and undemocratic goernance has so alienated this country. Labour RIP.
AS surveys mean nothing i have had a great idea the government should pay for a mail drop to every outlet that sells alcohol[not shops] and if 70%)say no and 30% say yes let them do as their customers want everybody happy it aint rocket science now that democracy, oh i forgot we have new labour in power it wasnt an idea i was just dreaming,
Polls don't mean a thing if you asked a hundred people who do not drink and don't visit pubs and asked do you agree with the smoking ban in pubs, i bet all but one or two would say yes ,you only have to compare the publicans survey with the m advertiser two totally different results ,which one do you believe ,has any body bothered to ask the many hundreds of thousands of people who since the ban came in and no longer visits pubs or the people who have cut down on visits or the pensioners who now stay at home i think not, my own Minnie survey asking 20 people in here 20 Min's ago who agrees with allowing smoking in the pub 15 said yes 5 said as long its in the bar and not in the lounge so 100% of my survey would like the ban reversed now if i asked the same in a food childed friendly outlet i would expect a different result it depends who you ask the point being theres room for both, but labours answers to alcohol concerns is to close as many pubs as possible
As someone else mentioned, you should be allowing ex licensees to be involved in any polls, the ones who have gone bust due to the ban ! you wouldn,t be getting anywhere near 64% in favour of the ban ?
JohnnyB You and the other F2C members who have swarmed in on this thread regularly go on about the votes that will be lost to Labour because of the ban. Didn't you notice that Labour beat the UKIP candidate in the Henley by-election? UKIP, the only party that has said it would overturn the ban, polled 843 votes (2.43%). They only beat the monster raving looney party by 601 votes.
Johnny B Granted pubs did have non-smoking lounges which were empty, because no one wanted to be where these areas were i.e. dartboard / pool table etc. And you're right again, no one has been prosecuted for passive smoking, That was my point, if you'd read between the lines, the big boys were running scared long before the ban came about, and if they were heading for the hills, what chance the lone licensee !!!! And if you think you can get 12M people to vote under one banner at the next election then maybe you should become a politician. By the way, my pub isn't exceptional, I'm just trying to put the ticks in the right boxes, as everyone else is trying to do.
Steve Clements, You say you've not noticed an impact on your trade but that's far from the norm. We'll have to call your Pub 'exceptional' which as you know doesn't, or shouldn't, make the rule. Most publicans that aren't bankrupt are having a very hard time and I'd agree the state of the economy is a contributing factor. You claim Pubs are "a better enviroment to visit" since the ban. Most Pubs had no-smoking lounges and in comparison to the smoking areas were pretty empty. So hardly a factor is it if you're being honest? I rarely visit Pubs since the ban. I can count on 1 hand the times I've gone out in the past year and it used to be once a week if you want a survey! Regards your somment about legal action from staff and getting insurance cover. The insurance industry has NEVER had a claim for passive smoking. There's also been no legal case, anywhere on the planet, that's attrbuted direct smoking to causation of ill-health (see McTear v Imperial Tobacco, Scotland 2005 and the EPA case against 2nd hand smoke in America). The chances of anyone being awarded damages for inhaling smoke is a pipe dream. There's around 12M smokers in Britain. That's bigger than the entire actual voting base at a general election. If you think that voter power won't be represented at the next election and overturn this ban based on junk science then you're very brave. Braver than most politicians who will be pandering to the power base of smokers in Britain come election time I can assure you.
"Pubs are closing down at their fastest rate ever - with those in towns and cities being hit the hardest. Some 2 % of all city pubs have closed in the last six months, whilst food-led country pubs with outdoor facilities for smokers are reaping the benefits." Sky News 27 June The phrase "turkeys voting for Christmas" comes to mind
I have a traditional " back street boozer " in Plymouth, my lease is with Enterprise, so not much going for us there !! Has the smoking ban had an effect on my business ? I'm not too sure. Our figures are in line with last year so you could say trade is down a little because of the price increases forced upon us. Have I lost any customers because of the ban, no, a quite emphatic no in fact. Have I had any adverse comments about the lack of freedom of choice, no. Have many of our customers now given up the " habit " yes, several. Is the pub a more pleasurable experience for those who visit, without a doubt. We were managers with S & N when all the hullabuloo about a smoking ban first started, if memory serves me correct, a person from another managed company, not S & N, enquired about what her employers were doing to protect her health with regard to passive smoking. We all know the story, or should do, so I won't bore you with all the rest. Will the smoking ban be overturned, no, never. Which ever government was in power at the time would never put itself in the firing line over health issues now that the change has been made. Could Licensee's afford to change back, what would be the inevetable increased premium on the business insurance, if indeed an insurer would risk a claim by a member of staff over an issue such as lung cancer !!! You, as I have in the past, can question the suitability of employing someone who, Doesn't like swearing, can't abide the " boys " having one too many, and then to cap it all, doesn't quite get on with authority. of course you never find out about these things until after you've employed them. But in these days of P.C. where do you then start to discriminate against potential employees. The smoking ban is here to stay, adapt we must. Many houses will go to the wall, the others must survive as best they can. Bemoan the income from a lost customer if you must, but his loss may not send you over the brink, a trip to court for not looking after the health of your staff certainly will.
Inflation rising with higher food/ and fuelcosts, house values plummeting. ...the list goes on...... 'I know, lets all go out for a meal to celebrate! We can afford it!' Smoking bans are a 'luxury' of decadent comfortable societies. There are hard times ahead - people will soon be ruing the demise of the traditional wet led, smoking This will all end in tears......
Tony Payne, chief executive of the Federation of Licensed Victuallers Associations, said he was not surprised by the level of support shown. He said: We saw the same thing in Ireland when after people got over the initial problems it was seen as the best thing that ever happened. Is he absolutely sure about that?
How many pubs and clubs would remain smoke free if the Government allowed them to choose smoking or non-smoking?
This 'survey' whiffs of a stitch-up or a lot of Licensees who aren't seeing their fellows going to the wall. This survey contrasts remarkably (strangely?!!) with a new readers poll of publicans that showed 77% of licensees think that trade has suffered as a result of the ban and 3 out of 5 licensees said they had let staff go or reduced their hours. Further 73% want the ban lifted. Period. Mr. Fish Serving Pub is fully entitled to his opinion and right to keep his premises smoke-free if the ban is lifted. Nothings stopping him staying smoke-free. What however should be happening in a democracy is allowing Licensees to make the decision themselves of allowing smoking. This is a democracy afterall. The ban doesn't work. People, pubs, restaurants, music venues and Clubs are going bankrupt and the Vacilliers Association needs to represent its Members on this critical issue. Urgently.
Well how conflicting is that on the same day the MA says the opposite. I agree with auldhairyface on how questions are asked too. Pete, you agree 100% with it?
Typical statistical garbage we should expect on the anniversary of this draconian ban. The antis are scared that the damage they've done over the last year will lead to the overturning their selfish dictatorship. If this nonsense was to be believed then there would be no need for the ban. If so many people wanted to run smoke free venues they would choose to do so regardless of legislation. The fact is they wouldn't because they know where the real money is. Smokers are drinkers, and it doesn't take a maths degree to work out that if you let them inside to do both they will spend money. But if you kick em outside like trash, they'll go home. This ban was a crime when it was introduced, and a year down the line it has caused the closure of hundreds of pubs. More pubs will close as long as it continues. Yet we have to read utter rubbish about how successful its been. Tell that to the bankrupt landlords. I'm sure it'll cheer them up to know that for all their suffering, at least some anti smoking statisticians are having a jolly good laugh.
I have to say that with respect the two mentioned licenced premises don't seem to look (these days) like the average outlet. I'd like to mention that The Faversham premises show images 'with' ashtrays on their tables! LOL Personally I travel throughout Greater London. I see the JDW at Liverpool Street Station as an example where on a good day the outside is crammed with 'all' smokers and the inside with people. Stations are always a good source of general feeling. On a different theme think of a Moraccan restaurant I used to use - hubbly bubbly pipes - The smoking ban and trade vanished (and they closed down)! I personally rest my case. Michael
I bet the landlords of the 1000+ pubs that have closed already have been asked what they think? What about the many more who are supporting their pubs with credit cards and part time jobs? The pubs, the length and breadth of the land, borded up,are their owners asked for oppinion? There are lies, damned lies and statistics. The smoking ban stinks.
Well thats funny the Morning Advertiser have just ran a poll which said totally the opposite from licencees - who is telling porky pies. Me personally I am not bothered, I buy in from the supermarket and smoke at home, no way I will pay to stand outside for any one.
Never yet heard of a licencee or club saying the legislation on the 'No Smoking Ban' was good ! Pubs are shutting all over the country and 80 private members clubs have shut so far, with a prediction that 500 may shut in the next 5 years. the knock on effect is costing 1000's of jobs.... When will the government stop trying to run our lives and get on with running the country?
IT MIGHT BE NICER, BUT IT IS QUIETER WITHOUT CUSTOMERS AND I SUPPOSE YOU NEED CUSTOMERS
After long, careful and deep thought - I'd like to announce I support the Smoking Ban 100%!
“Publican survey reveals 64 per cent in favour of the ban” OK, now let’s have a Publican survey on FREEDOM OF CHOICE. Question 1: Do you believe in freedom of choice? Question 2: Do you believe that the landlord of a pub should have the right to choose if his pub is? a) All smoking. b) No smoking throughout. c) Separate smoking/non smoking. Question 3: Do you believe that the customer should have the freedom of choice to choose which type of pub they want to use?