Smoking ban hits Pubs 'N' Bars

in a week that the LVA announce a downturn in business in Wales of 20%, denying that the ban has affected the trade is pointless and insulting. My local and my friends in the trade have had an utterably miserable time since the bans inception. Takings over the bar are woeful in a comparison to last year. The time worn cry of "change or die" hangs a little listlessly in the air when it actually means "...err try and make some of the loss in trade up on food" which may be possible if you sell insipid microwave meals but how can anyone plan to use and cook fresh ingredients without a solid background in catering, do you expect a landlord whose only experience is wet sales to suddenly Egon Ronnay up his pub? utterley ridiculous and patronising. Oh and the final irony, the health and lives we were supposed to be protecting? remember them? the bar and waiting staff? all sacked because their isn't enough business to cover their costs! how thankful they must be.

i think people have missed the point of the smoking ban this is just another ploy by the scottish led english parliment to detroy our english heritage you saw brown at his last rally say british 75 times never i recall did he say england wake up england before its to late , the only problem i see is who do we vote for as the 3 main partys are just as curruped

i think people have missed the point of the smoking ban this is just another ploy by the scottish led english parliment to detroy our english heritage you saw brown at his last rally say british 75 times never i recall did he say england wake up england before its to late , the only problem i see is who do we vote for as the 3 main partys are just as curruped

As a bar owner i confirm that the smkoing ban has been the single most damaging issue to affect my business. Sales are down 50% . I am not alone in this and I would like to know what our industry representatives like the Publican, are going to do about this. One solution would be to implement the ban upto 10pm only, a good compromise for diners. Nono smokers and non smoking staff.

i run a live music venue, we dont do food. I am struggling,Beer, fags and metal music go together. what happens is that everyone stays outside to talk to the smokers and the bands play to an empty pub! Put that up with the rise in electric and I will be surprised if this time next year I'm open. Shame its a trade i have loved for 12years.

Sadly the thing which will suffer most is going to be the cultural English heritage of being able to visit a proper wet led English pub. All I read about the landlords who feel the ban is a "success" are all commenting about the need for licensees to change or react to continue to make a living. I don’t want my pub to have to change, it’s worked fine the way it is for the last 4 centuries!! I think it's a gross injustice that you can no longer run a country pub, you need to become a restaurant or go out of business!

I'm a smoker/drinker. Last night was Wednesday a night I usually go to my local to watch a live band. It was raining. I didn't fancy hanging around in the rain having a fag so stayed home. I guess the landlord will not lose sleep over the loss of my four pints (and girlfriends bottle of vino) but, I am not on my own and multiply me over the UK and there will be a problem. The evil smokeban has been largely introduced through baseless whingeing about "passive smoking". So, we must conclude that the whingers, pre-ban, freely entered licensed premises in the "certain knowledge" they were going to fall seriously ill!!! I don't think so. They were bothered that their clothes/hair would smell. Well, as a 40 a day man, I don't care for that either which is why I have a washing machine and a shower!

Any money that was previously spent by myself and family on holidaying in the u.k,will now be saved up to be spent on extra breaks abroad. How nice to be able to have a drink and a cigarette- Together!!- I refuse to be treated like a social pariah,and have stopped going to any pubs since the introduction of the ban.

Cathy has spoken the truth. Turkey is much more tolerant about smokers. But we are going to have our third ban this year or the next. Present law defines ban on public places as airports, closed stations, public transport vehicles, closed working places where there're more than one worker. In fact, Turkish pubs (Kahvehane we call them) and restaurants were included in the second attack, but was violently opposed; so the parliament had to back to separate smoking and nosmoking areas. At the beginning, nosmoking areas were kept large, but they remained empty; because we smokers rejected to sit there and our firends chose to sit with us. Now, nosmoking areas are smaller. Sometimes, only a single table! Premise owners found a simple solution: they reserve a single table with the ban sign, if request arises, they reserve more tables. This is easy, as the sign is portable! I' ve never heard of anyone getting a fine. I invite you all to Turkey, it is really cheap here. 1 pack costs 0.6 to 2.0 pounds, You can happily live in a small town with even 300 pounds a month. But unemployment is serious, so you either have to get retired or adequate income from another source.

I have read all the comments and would like to say I have just come back from Majorca and it was lovely I could smoke everywhere and was not classed as an outcast just because I smoked. I would also like to say that if we are to join the EU will we then beable to smoke in public places like other EU countries, and also buy cigarettes as cheaply as they do instead of being robbed blind by this very unfair Government. They sell them to us and then deny us the right to smoke them in a public place.I would also like to say that you can smoke in Majorca Airport lovely. It is about time that the British people stood up and took action against this very unfair Government policy. How dare they deny us the right to smoke in a public place when if true are smoking theirselves in the houses of parliament.We British have no balls we just except everything they throw at us its about time we took action and stuck together. Please join up to wecansmokeparty on the net and bring us altogether. Even if I did not smoke I would still be against a smoking ban. Out in Majorca I was speaking to a lady that told me that our army personnel are fighting in afgansitan and iraq and when they get back to their camp or barracks they are not allowed to smoke how bloody unfair is that. The government dosnt mind them fighting for this country and risking their life in terrible conditions and then deny these brave men a cigarette to calm their nerves after fighting. This wants showing up in the newspaper if this is true.And any publican who defys the smoking ban has my support.

I have seen nothing factually based or constructive in any of Pete robinsons remarks. If he is a licensee I would be surprised. Perhaps it would be more appropriate for contributors to this site to be helping/advising those who are struggling as a result of the ban rather than just throwing out ridiculous and emotive sound bites. As publicans the vast majority are trying to run businesses within the law. I for one do not have time to cmpaign for ASH or Forest and see both organisations as extreme and irrelevant to my trade. Set up an organisation to campaign against the rents and energy costs. now that would be worthwhile. I can see money disappearing because of these big businesses but have not seen a downturn because of smoking legislation.

My pub, the Bullshitter's Arms, has seen a 2000% increase in turnover since the smoking ban. Sometimes people just come in and drop a £20 note on the bar then leave. What's more we never have to clean the place and my barstaff will live to be 192. At this rate I aim to retire next year, buy a yacht and devote all my spare time to campaigning for ASH.

Kathy I feel the same, I am married to a never smoker for over 30 years, we go out together. Come the winter, we will not, hubby will not even ask me. he does not want to dit in the pub like a larry, he does not want to freeze either. Ventilation/air filtration would have pleased us both. So I will go on more holidays, to tolerant Countries only, sunchine, duty frees,and not being made to feel like a leper, not segregated. Strange that a Country that wants us to intergrate, has done more to seperate. I agree, where were the pubs to stand up for their smoking customers. It will not be long when they want our help, when the alcohol Antis come along. freedom2choose.info Help us fight for ventilation to be included, for those in the hospitality trade who want it.

I can only speak as I find. We have run an estate community pub for the past 5 years.We chose to keep the lounge bar smoke free from day one and found that it out performed the public bar 3 to 1. Two years ago we banned smoking in the public bar,we lost around 12 customers but gained at least 50. We hav'nt gone out and spent out on a smoking shelter of any kind and new people are using us every week,we are 20% up on two years ago,Stop moaning and get on with running your pubs.

The smoking ban has been the least challenging of all the difficulties that I face as a licensee. Much higher than smoking the problems with high rents, increased energy costs and a very poor year weather wise have overshadowed the smoking debate to the point where, having sorted oit a smoking area, I do not even consider the smoking ban. I went no smoking in November of last year. This was actually late when you consider that two of the other three local pubs were no smoking already. The result. Trade is up. 17% on last year despite the very poor weather in the early part of the year. Like most landlords we are getting on with running our businesses. Ultimately there wil be some who suffer from the ban. Those who are unable or unwilling to adapt. Many of those will be the ones who spent valuable hours complaining or, in the minority, actively campaigning in the run up to legislation that was inevitable. Maybe it is time to get back to running your businesses and dealing with the other pressing problems inherent in our trade?

My have attitudes changed since my entry into the licensed trade in 1982. If someone then said in 25 years time there would be no smoking everyone would have laughed (and if 50 years earlier a mental asylum would have been the answer). I'm sorry but I run my old story off again. Little old man of 80 who fought for the freedom of this country. You normally hate them but they sit in the corner, read their paper, have a drink and smoke. That's all he has left and we've deprived him of that. Think that sounds fair, I certainly do not! What I've experienced are people from other countries telling me that my smoke is going their way and dislike it. I would add that these people are those we helped because of the lack of freedom in their own part of the world! Michael

Sylvia as a non smoker I find your categorisation of 'most' non smokers as 'health fanatics' as mis guided and patronising as a non smoker classing all smokers as drug addicts intent on inflicting their addiction on others. Being a non smoker says as litlle about me as being a smoker says about you. Sensible people will drink at home where they can smoke if they wish and pay supermarket prices for their drink rather than the cost in pubs and if pubs go out of business thats the market at work. No one has a devine right to run a busy pub if licensees can't find sufficient custom to stop their outlet being one of the ones with a revolving door for tennents thats tough for them. We have about 25% more pubs than we needed even before the ban so the sooner some of the bad one close the better.

With all the talk of an election at the moment I'm surprised that non of the parties have got the balls and foresight to promise a review of the law. They would guarantee themselves about 20 million votes. Don't they realise what they have done? They are destroying an historic and cultural centrepiece to British life. They keep asking us what it means to be British and the basic aswer is FREEDOM. When it comes to schools and hostpitals they promote the right of people to choose but when it comes to liesure nanny knows best. We must challenge this law - join Freedom2Choose and help them challenge the law with a Judicial Review.

Neil - The reason you "can now see from one end of the bar to the other" is because it's unpolluted by customers. You antis always claim to be living in your locals since the ban, so why are pub takings suffering so badly? I hope your local landlord didn't pay much for those two leases. They'll be giving 'em away after the coming winter.

I get fed up with smokers spreading doom and gloom about the smoking bans. I can now go to the pub without smelling like an ashtray when I get home. I can now see from one end of the bar to the other. What was a once a week trip is now a 3-4 times a week trip to my local as I can take my non-smoking friends who never used to visit pubs. Families can come in and bring the kids, which they never used to. So there is the other side of the coin. Some people applaud the ban. The landlord of my local has just taken on the lease for two other pubs. So it is not all doom and gloom. I think you will find that the drop in trade has more to do with the appalling summer we have had.

My husband and I stopped smoking in English bars on 1st July 2007. We refused to be segregated. The money we previously spent on socialising in England has been saved up. We now invest our leisure money on holidays abroad! And don't we love it. Take Turkey for instance;- No yob culture. smoking allowed everywhere. Cheap drink. Sunshine the whole year round. Friendly locals and a great night life. R.I.P. English pub trade.We are leaving you, to your new found political correctness and your sterile empty pubs.

Sylvia's comment reflects what many of us think about the changing nature of Pubs. I do not want to patronise an establishment where other patrons are made to stand around outside like outcasts. If Pubs take the trouble to provide pleasant areas where I can sit comfortably with a drink and smoking and non smoking friends then I will support them.

All smokers want is the freedom to be able to choose, and not be forced to go outside, smoking and non-smoking venues would enable us to do this. This ban is draconian and unfair and both smokers and fair minded non-smokers agree that it needs to be, at least modified, and at best repealed.

It says, they hope smokers will return after they have accepted the situation. I hope they do not return, not because I want anyone's business to suffer, but because the only way to repeal this ridiculous, cruel law is to keep protesting against it - and that means ALL smokers. Why should they accept a situation which is so blatantly unacceptable?

As a 57 year old smoker who has smoked since the age of 12 (and is still healthy and who has only visited her GP in the last 20 odd year with a back injury, a knee injury and insect bites) your article misses the point in that however attractive outside areas might be they are still isolated away from the banter of sitting at the bar. I refuse to keep popping outside because it makes me look furtive so I will not get used to the legislation. We have visited some pubs with outside areas in the summer and found empty pubs inside and us to be the only people in the garden so what is happening here is that smokers just will not go into the pub at all. Most non smokers by definition are health fanatics so are not likely to keep the tills busy enough to cover the deficit of smokers not frequenting pubs. I find they have a "dog in a manger" attitude. When the novelty wears off of being able to drink in a "smoke free" environment they will disappear back into the woodwork or if they do go they will sit with half a shandy for the hwole evening. Also where are pubs going to be in the winter now that will be the telling time because I for one would not turn out of a nice warm house here I can smoke and drink as much as I want and where I can invite my friends to join me, to sit outside in the cold and I am sorry however many heaters pubs provide nobody is going to sit in the snow, however many quiz nights and karaokes they organise. If all the pubs go broke they only have themselves to blame as they chose to stay silent when the ban was being inflicted on us. You should have fought for the rights of the smoker - where were the protest marches? Instead you did nothing. You've made your smoke free beds and now you can lie in them.