Pub faces legal action over smoke odour

Why the hell live above a pub then?!?!?!

I really sympathise with the publicans.....but I live over a licenced premises and if I don't close the windows before 18.00 my bedroom fills with smoke so thick that you can see it. This can't be right can it? You've got to see it from the other point of view too....its seriously affected my quality of life and long-term my health

next to my pub ajoining in fact there are two houses i have over a year complained to our local council abour rubbish bags that these tenants leave outside in the lane they have bins but leave bags next to them which of course the bin lads will not take and i talking huge amounts including household stuff the dogs scatter them it then gets blown at my pub doors and i have to pay some one a couple of pints to get rid every time i phone the council they will send someout to clean the mess up at the back but for some reason take no action against the tenants i have asked for visits from officers i left my phone number i do know how many times all i get is silence from the council the point is if i were to commit an offence i would be pounced on and fined out of buisness am i the first to complain about tenants

I must say I dread to think where all this is giong to end for the village pubs. We have erected a smoking sheter in the beer garden at the rear of our building at a cost to ourselves as there's no help from S&N. We also have seating area outside the front which is nearer the bars. Our customers prefer to go out front?? We do our best to encourage them to use the new shelter. We have 8 letting rooms of which we cannot open the windows because of the cigarette smoke going into the rooms, we get complaints from our resident guest for the noise that the outside smoking has created (we have a licence til 1pm although we close at 12 to keep complaints to a minimum and we have the neighbours blaming us of having a noisy house. We just took over the Manor House in September last year and we are working very hard to build up the trade but every step seems to be yet another hurdle to jump as it seem someone is trying their best to get rid of all our village pubs in one way or another. Something must be done to support our trade or it will be gone forever.

I write this on a friday night looking at my CCTV at a once bouyant Friday night venue. Since the Ban, I have cancelled The Tuesday Quiz, Karaoke on Friday and after 4 turning up for Bingo last night I think I know whats coming. My PubCo, who shall remain nameless but come from the same country as our esteemed leader, are about as much help as a chocolate fireguard. Most of us just cannot stand alone and our Trade newspaper needs to take a lead or they could be out of business in the next 5 years as well as us. The simple fact is dont blame supermarkets, etc, the whole fabric of our Great British Pub is in danger of collapse unless we are like the rest of Europe and take the b......ds who Run ??? us, on.

If I choose to live next to a nightclub, I'd expect to hear loud music every weekend. If I live in the countryside, I expect to find tractors and muck spreading all over the place. If I live next to a pub, I expect to hear the sounds of joy and merriment, and other things that go with a pub, which nowadays means smokers outside. No matter where you live, you have to take the rough with the smooth. Get on with your own lives and be a bit more tolerant.

My Customers many of whom are smokers feel they are being treated as seconed class citizens. Many couples one of which is a non smoker complain that if they come out together they to have to go outside. It seems most problems arise from the people who have given up not the ones who have never smoked. A lot feel both smokers/non smokers that the atmosphere is not as relaxed as it used to be.What would be so wrong in having smoking pubs the non smokers would not have to use them and your average smoker would certainly not insist on a law being passed to say that they do, after all this is a free country isn'it. We are not even allowed to put a warm and comfortable smoking area outside as the law insists it be open to the elements in other words making it as uncomfortable for the smoker as is humanly possible. Jeffs neigbour should be complaing about the law that forbids a closed in area after all if that was allowed the problem would be solved. But that does not seem good enough for the non smoker live and let live is definately not he/she's motto only do as I do because I know best. This law will eventually (if left unchecked) turn neighbour against neighbour. An Englishmans home is his castle will be a dim and distant memory. I agree with Caroline Wildman WHAT IS THIS BLOODY COUNTRY COMING TO?

criag auster you are very right the smokers are 20 feet not 20 metres i was miss quoted.

Could you imagine the conversation?!? "Oh no - We seem to be stood too close to someone else's air, we'd better vacate to some part of the groud where the pub owns the air " Oh the fantastic complainers, where would we be without them?!?!

Jeff castledine writes here that the plans for the smoking shelter are “around 20 metres from a 6FT fence”. I would ask any of you who have commented to look at the plans proposed and see the location on site and get your tape measures out because if this is 20 metres, a pint would only be a shot!!! He also adds he is a good neighbour, would any good neighbour take it upon their selves without consent to cut down approx 2 and half feet of privet hedge which is not on their property?? We are only objecting to the location of the planned smoking area, having asked Grays brewery to move the planned location away from the close proximity of my grandmothers property where she has live for more than 50 years!! There is ample room around the other side of the pub, where this would effect no persons or property!! EXTRA NOISE AND ODOUR WILL BE CAUSED BY THE PLANNED SITE!! Any good neighbour or company would have consulted there neighbours with plans to build any structure!!

I am a non-smoking regular of this pub and know the Castledines very well. The smoking area is well away from the property boundaries and I happily sit in the beer garden with the smokers and the smoke never disturbs me. As Jeff says, there is never more than 6 or 7 smokers out in the garden so this whole issue is ridiculous! Clearly publicans are expected to control wind direction as part of the smoking ban. If this neighbour is so concerned about smoke levels coming from one pub, I hate to think how they would manage walking to the shops or around town where people smoke outside in larger groups than this. Hopefully the Council will see this as nonsense and through the case out soon. Good luck Jeff.

having just returned from benidorm i was amazed that all the pubs were packed out and smoking was allowed in all pubs not one complaint was heard and all the customers were english. i am fully in favour of a ban in food and transport but pubs never. people have a choice to go in a smoking or none smoking pub the smoker has no choice. i shall be stopping in soon winter is on its way. after 50yrs smoking i cant have a fag in my working mans club which i have used for 40 years what a joke

What does this guy do, sit in his garden sniffing the air all night? It's so PATHETIC! It's not only the moronic smoking ban to blame, I fear, but the litigious nature of society (largely imported with many other unwanted things from America). It's just a way of getting rich quick - stumble on the pavement? Sue the council. Smell a cigarette from 50 feet away? Take legal action against the pub. If smokers had somewhere to go, they wouldn't be congregated in the garden in the first place! It ain't rocket science! Or maybe, as others have said, they want to exclude smokers completely from any sort of social llife. I wouldn't be surprised. It's happened in America, and where they go, we soon follow. Nanny will not stop. Once they've dealt with smoking, it'll be alcohol, unhealthy foods - maybe even dangerous sports! The only thing I have to say to people who agree with this ban is wait until they start on something you enjoy doing, see how you like it.

I DON'T B****Y BELIEVVVVE IT!!!!

The Council is in a no win situation on this one. It is obliged pursue the complaint but proving a statutory nuisance is extremely difficult for odours. Odours are subjective and you can't 'measure' them. So it is virtually impossible to differentiate between a 'smell' and a nuisance. It is no wonder the Council want to resolve the complaint without taking legal action.

Assuming you are mostly all publicans on here..Why on earth are you not supporting the 3 landlords over the smoke ban..they have gone alone with no support at all from you publicans,And you ought to be Ashamed of yourselves...Too late now to start crying over spilt milk..cant you see new labour have killed 3 birds with one stone..More land for housing when all the pubs are bulldozed..less smokers so they believe wrongly less to spend on health,less drinkers,again less to spend on health..Im afraid its all going to have a very bad outcome for you landlords who chose to walk away from confrontation.And congratulations'' You deserve your fate'' .

if all you customers and more importantly Publicans would stop wingeing from your backsides and support tony blows,nick hogan and hamish howett with help and hard cash to fight this ban,incidentally as you should of done before it became the stupid law it is today ,pubs could be saved from closure,but if you carry on as you do now ''All mouth and no Action'' quite honestly your pubs deserve to close..as you cant expect a few hundred Die hard fighters,and you know who we are CLUE..''bristol march''last saturday to fight all your battles for you..Either put up or shut up.

Does any other EU country enforce the no smoking ban? I think not. They don't waste money on smoke patrols either. There is some annoyance caused now though, to be fair to those who live near pubs. I myself have a house opposite a pub, and since the smoking ban, it has become very noisy outside the pub at night when I am at home. I for one will complain to the council about this unless the proprietor keeps the noise down. This had not affected us until the ban, and we have owned the house since 1994. So, my answer? Make the pub over the road a smokers pub, and the one up the road a non smokers. Think on you idiots calling people morons for buying near a pub! The problem didn't exist beforehand.

May I suggest the neighbour visit primelocation.com and let the landlord get on with running his business and his clients enjoying themselves to the best of their ability.

CIGARS WARS, once upon a time in a far distant galaxy there was a small planet inhabited by highly advanced beings however the ruling council was faced with the problem of the noise and fumes caused by groups of the large minority of its citizens who were smoking a plant we call tobacco. the council introduced fines, smoke police litter officers and snitch lines all to no avail people were being turned into lepers the council was at its wits end when an old wise counciller suggested that if special facilities were built for the smokers use the problem would be solved he suggested these places could be called pubs the council agreed,the pubs were built and they all lived happily ever after

Are politicians allowed to smoke inside the houses of Parliament? Or do they have a specially erected shelter they can use. This question has nothing to do with people who buy homes next door to a pub, hotels, Inn, Restaraunts, cafe, but as they appear to be a law unto themselves I just wondered.

As a non smoking entertainer i have welcomed the ban with open arms. Unfortunatly it has affected work as pubs start to cut back on entertainmnet because of a drop in trade. The forward thinkin pubs have built nice shelters or big umbrellas with heaters. The smaller ones just have the smokers standing in the doorway making us the non smokers run the gauntlet when we enter the pub. I recently passed my local bingo place to see 50 odd people standing outside on the pavement puffing away. Not nice for the kids who need to use that pavement and surely not exactly legal.

Stephen Williams says he is with the pubs neighbour on this one - is anyone trying to say that prior to the ban no-one smoked outside on nice, warm sunny days? Why is it now that they are complaining? Could it just be because now there is a smoking ban these neighbours want it extended and the fact that they live next door to a pub (their choice I should imagine or were the forced to buy a home next door to a pub?) gives them some leverage with the mindless jobsworth councils to make a fuss! It is like the story about people being fined and taken to court over smoking in a bus station, which is classed as substantially enclosed. What about all the diesel fumes being belched out by the busses? The council says they are acting to protect the health of other people when everyone, especially in a substantially enclosed space, is being poisoned by diesel fumes! I'm sure there are plenty of kids out there who are capable of proving that diesel fumes are far more harmful than cigarette smoke! Please God tell us that the government and all the councils will soon find a brain cell that is called 'Common Sense' and will take over the thus vacant minds of these morons.

How does anybody measure the amount of odour in the air? What is the legal limit for odour in open spaces?

Are we shocked by the potential action of local councils over outside smoking? I think not, it is inevitable that this was going to happen. Whatever the alleged nuisance, publicans walk on eggshell when it comes to neighbours and this is only going to add to the problem. Why buy a house next to a pub if you then intend to start complaining about it. Village pubs are dying (if they rely on villagers), I had one that I sold last year that fortunately was wildly successful because we were more a restaurant. The only people I had any bother with was villagers - they want to dictate yet are the least viable as customers. I hope this pub wins in the battle of petty neighbours. Philip Clutton.

This smoking ban will be the death of all pubs, they were right when they said smoking kills, where will all the non smokers go when there are no pubs left, remember corner shops, you can read about them in the history books, pubs will soon be joining them, LEAVE THE PUBS ALONE. I have introduced food into my pub in Warwickshire and a neighbour has complained about cooking smells, we have spent a fortune and now we are considering packing up and moving abroad this country has gone crazy with its stupid rules and regulations which will come back to haunt us.

While I understand the reasons for the ban, I still feel that some choice/control should be handed to us in the trade. If a licencee wants to operate a 'Smoking' pub, then they should have the choice to do so. With apprpriate signage, both customers and potential staff could make their choices BEFORE entering the building.

In a bit called Save Our Pubs http://theredbladder.blogspot.com is going on about all this. He is a bit over the top but makes a good case for the publicans and their problems.

This complainer has no interest in trying to be a good neighbour.Perhaps it's time for Jeff Castledine & all to fight back before this "disease" spreads.Jeff should complain about the neighbour's cooking odour,or the noise when he yells at the kids or wife.Possibly his garbage reeks,his yard is a mess,etc.(I think you get the idea.)

Oh my bloody god how pathetic. Does this neighbour cook meat ? if so i would sue him as i am a vegi and dont like the smell of burning flesh. I bet the pub was there way before he bought his house.

Can Chelmsford Borough Council please cite the chapter and verse in the Environmental Protection Act 1990.which they claim is “nuisance caused by odour from cigarette smoke”. OR is it just another bully boy tactic against a harassed'public' business. The only 'odour' reference is to do with 'landfill sites'legislaton.

The prohibiting of smoking in public buildings constituted another step in the erosion of personal liberties. It also was a convenient way for the Government to destroy yet another British tradition, namely that of friends and neighbours congretating in a convival atmospher to 'put the world to rights', over a pint and a puff. Since smoking outdoors has yet, I repeat yet, to be outlawed, it is difficult to understand how this landlord can be held responsible for smoke from a legal drug, being consumed within the law, irritating others. Having said that, I have no doubt that somewhere in the small print there will be a 'rule', which allows the council to hound the landlord and to hold him responsible for other people's actions, and behaviour outside of his premises. Yes of course the whole nonsence could have been avoided with a bit of common sense and tolerance, virtues lacking in those bigots at ASH. the numerous suggestions to allow for smoking and non smoking rooms, is not only common sense, it is democracy in action, but then again the latter has been dispensed with. What we are left with is the persecution of soft targets, whilst the enforcing of the law on illicit drugs, and the trading of them is carried out with seeming immunity. Is there a solution to such madness? short of a massive, persistent and concerted act of public disobedience by all concerned, I fear not. Nor am i suggesting that such action should take place, in what was once a free country.

Stupid laws create stupid consiquences. If the rocket scientists would actually deal with the problem from a common sense approach, filter and exhust per a simple specification similar to a kitchen exhust requirement everybody would imerge a winner. Take politics out of the question and it's an easy fix, our other choice is to fix the politics which is done with the vote.

Did nobody see this coming? The government and the local councils all new this was going to happen, they were very quick to point out how trade had not been affecting by the smoking bans in Ireland, Scotland or Wales! we all new this was crap, when we were continually being told that the pubs were all going skint! We have been sold down the river! the government are far too stupid to realise that we do not live in the Meditteranean, so our customers are frozen to death outside having a fag, whilst being nagged by us not to exhale any smoke in case a neighbour complains! Beurocratic Extremism gone mad and minority rule, remember the Nazis?

This law is getting totally ridiculous. We are all ready forced outside to smoke, do they want all pubs in the country to close? Where would the government get its money from if people stop drinking and smoking?

I can understand both sides of this. My friend's neighbour, who only has a smoke after a Sat night out is only allowed to smoke outside his house. Because of the air currents, if he sits ouside his back door, the smoke goes straight in my friend's small top bedroom window - he may as smoke in the bedroom. The solution was to politely ask the neighbour if he would move a few feet - problem sorted. One would hope that a friendly word was forthcoming before the council got involved here. I can understand the neighbour's problem - could be like having an acrid BBQ smouldering away next door every evening.

The government knew exactley what they were doing when they introduced this ban, on ASH's advice. All the problems with the ban,noise,litter,smoke going over outdoor diners has happened in America. It was used as an excuse to introduce outdoor bans and exclusion zones. If something isn't done to amend this ban,then things will go from bad to worse for the landlord.

Warning to licensees take beans off the menu immediately , flatulence in the garden will get you closed down. Maybe its time Jeff Castledine, sold out to a chapter of Hells Angels. That should give his neighbour something to worry about.

It is all about public areas so now if you walk down any Town or City street the smokers are out in force or if you sit in an outside garden at say a Pub or even a Cafe the problem exists. I have always been an avid non-smoker and being a musician for over 40 years I must have done my fair share of passive smoking but I agree that smokers should be taken into consideration and Pubs should have the right for a smokng and non-smoking Bar provided they are not connected in anyway. Legislation is very important but then so is people's livelyhood which this government has taxed to the hilt and then some with so many stealth taxes - we never had it so good!! they said that in the 70's til it when wrong - they said that in the 80's til it all went wrong and here in 2007 the signs are that it is happening again and the general public have been led down a one-way street ONCE AGAIN.

Fumes from cigarettes? Whats next fumes from cars and people complaining and trying to stop people driving? This neighbour needs to get a life! When they bought the house was the pub next door? Of course it was so why the heck are they now complaining? How many more pubs need to close before the minority of simple minded poeple get there way?

WHAT IS THIS BLOODY COUNTRY COMING TO? We're having to throw our customers outside to smoke in all weathers, then if that's not enough we've got the councils on our backs for the nuisance of it to our neighbours and who's to blame for it all? THE FLAMING GOVERNMENT!! Why can't they just review it and let us Licensees choose whether to be smoking or non-smoking pubs? After all how many of us in the trade are still awaiting in baiting breath for the hoards of NON-SMOKERS to come rushing through our doors? Were they not the ones who wanted this draconian law brought in? HA what a laugh that is! Now that the weather is colder & winter is almost upon us how many of us in the trade are going to be out in the cold for good through lack of customers, our profits down, but still have to pay rent, bills etc. It won't be much longer now when pubs will be a thing of the past due to the many closures and more closing by the day due to the lack of support we are getting from the government, pubcos and the list just goes on & on. Is Mr Brown & his government going to accomodate us when we lose all that we're trying to build & make a life for ourselves.......HMMMMMMMM let me think........NOPE i didn't think so!! It's time that all licensees unite together and get this stupid law changed and support the 3 licensees who are being taken to court for letting their customers carry on smoking in their pubs & showing that nobody has a right to tell you what you can or cannot do in your own business especially when that business is also your OWN HOME!

Nobody thought of this when imposing the ban, what other implications are going to arise. Im afraid im with the pubs neighbour on this one though .