Cameron: No "silver bullet" on binge-drinking
27 March, 2008
In an exclusive inteview with The Publican, the Tory leader explains what his party would do to help pubs, gives his views on supermarkets and defines binge-drinking
David Cameron is a man who clearly knows his way around a pub. It’s reassuring to think the 41-year-old Tory leader, whose party is currently 4/6 favourite to win the next election, has a grasp of pub life.
“I’m very lucky because I have a constituency with 85 parishes, loads of amazing pubs, and I’ve been to most of them,” he chuckles, as he sips a pint of Timothy Taylor’s Landlord.
Cameron’s constituency is Witney, in the heart of the Cotswolds, Oxfordshire, which is indeed blessed with a plethora of picture postcard pubs.
Among them is the Maytime, in the hamlet of Asthall, where I find myself sat with the man once dubbed the new Tony Blair.
But he seems to have shaken off this tag – and hearing the Old-Etonian riff on the pleasures of real ale can only help.
“In the pub I love drinking real ale, I’m a particular fan of Sharp’s Doom Bar. That’s a nice pint, it’s very good,” he says.
Somehow, it’s harder to imagine Tony talking his way around the delights of a decent pint.
Help for pubs
But enough of this cheer for beer. Four traditional pubs a day are closing and the government has just unveiled the harshest Budget for the trade in living memory.
The question is, if elected, how can the Conservatives help?
“There is too much regulation and I think we can help by being a government that tries to keep regulation down,” says Cameron. “That would make a big difference.”
At the same time he issues a call to arms to people who bleat on about losing pubs, while not visiting them.
“The most important thing is to recognise it’s not just the government. If you want to keep your local pub, you have to use it,” he says sternly.
On the issue of tax, the Tories have quite a radical answer. Increase duty on ready-to-drinks (RTDs) and high-strength lagers and ciders, while reducing it on normal beers and ciders by around 8p. I counter with the government’s claim that RTDs cannot be singled out for tax rises.
Cameron retorts: “Well, the Germans did it on alcopops, so I don’t see why we can’t. And instead of saying ‘no we can’t’, the government ought to spend more time working out how we can.”
Licensing laws
Of course we wouldn’t be having such a detailed discussion on tax if alcohol hadn’t taken centre stage recently as the thing most likely to destroy Western civilisation.
This debate was ratcheted up a notch by the relaxation of the UK’s licensing laws – an issue at the heart of Labour’s last election manifesto.
The result of last month’s government review of the Act showed that violence was slightly down, but overall there was a broadly neutral effect.
Many on the right of the political spectrum, and plenty on the left, were against the shake-up in licensing laws.
But does Cameron now feel it has been a success?
“It was right to move away from a single closing time, flexibility was a good idea,” he concedes. “But in some cases I feel communities didn’t get enough of a say over what was happening and the government are slightly shutting their eyes to that.”
Watching the shops
In the same review, some of the industry was angry that the off-trade was not singled out for its irresponsible approach. Does the Tory leader think supermarkets are to blame?
“You can’t point the finger exclusively at bars, pubs, supermarkets or convenience stores,” he says.
“But it’s true to say for a long time politicians and others were ignoring the problem of the local shop that wasn’t focusing properly on the problem of selling alcohol to underage drinkers.
“We must make sure the police feel empowered that if off-licences are selling alcohol to underage people they should have their licence taken away. We should be really tough about that.
"And I always sensed that publicans were getting frustrated because they were getting all the blame.”
Cameron offers hope of action on supermarkets. “One of the things we’ve said is we want to stop the practice of heavily discounted alcohol in supermarkets, we need to change the law,” he explains.
Binge-drinking
Ultimately though, Cameron, who served as a non-executive director of Tiger Tiger operator Novus Leisure (formerly Urbium) until 2005, says there is no “silver bullet” when it comes to addressing binge-drinking.
“What we want is a continental social drinking culture,” he says. “But you don’t get there just by changing the law, or increasing taxes, you get there by a big cultural change.
“It’s about how we bring up our kids, what we teach them at school, about how our businesses behave, about how supermarkets behave, about how the media behave and until we think about it like that we won’t actually crack it.”
Personal responsibility is also a big point for the MP.
“That is massive,” he states. “In the end the one word that sums up politics for me is ‘responsibility’. And this is a classic example.”
The smoking ban
All fair points. But I can’t let him go without quizzing him on the other issue still very much cloaking the trade – the smoking ban.
Cameron reveals he was against the idea originally, due to his pro-choice beliefs. Yet he accepts it now. “We lost the argument and we’ve moved on,” he says.
And are pubs better for it?
“Yes,” he replies. “We are all better off, because we are not smoking, but for a lot of people it’s a big change, because going to the pub for a pint and a fag was part of life.”
As we come to the end of the interview, there’s just time for a quick photo and one last chance to discuss the merits of real ale and the man who would be PM shows, when all is said and done, he is a true political animal.
“So this is a good pint actually, Landlord, is it? Who brews that?” he asks. Timothy Taylor of Keighley in West Yorkshire, I respond politely.
He fires back: “Ah, Keighley, that’s a key marginal seat, I must remember that.”
Cameron on…
What defines binge-drinking?
“It’s drinking to get really really drunk, rather than enjoying a drink and a chat.
"Don’t tell me that anyone goes to buy three litres of White Lightning for £3 to go and have a social drink with their mates. People buy that stuff to get off their head and that to me is what binge-drinking is.”
What makes a great pub?
“I like the friendly local, I like my local in Chadlington in Oxfordshire, the Tite Inn.
"I like somewhere you get really good beer, real ale. I like good pub food and I like having a garden so you can take the kids, I like family friendly, somewhere that feels part of the community. A good village pub.”
The smoking ban
“I don’t like bans. I don’t like the hunting ban, I don’t like smacking bans and I don’t like smoking bans.
"I’m just not a banner. But you know, I think the country has moved on, and people have accepted the smoking ban.”
Readers' comments
Equally, the same thing could be said about the hunting ban: "the country has moved on, they're accepting it, we lost the argument". After all, far fewer people hunt than smoke. Cameron is evidently not convinced, having promised to legislate to reverse it. His priorities are quite clearly with the establishment of which he is a member. As someone who has always aligned themselves with Labour (until the last two-three years or so) all Cameron would have to do to get my vote for the Tories is say 'we will amend the smoking ban'. I can't be the only one. Such is the disillusionment with the current government, I can't imagine many undecided voters swarming to the Labour camp over the smoking ban.
I will start out saying im a tory at heart. That said I think you are giving the reporter a hard time. Look at the real professionals who quiz a politician, all you get are answers to questions you didnt ask and lies and arguments. Atleast he got answers, if nothing solid came out of it. Cameron is an idiot who drinks booze in a pub where he claims his tax back or puts it on expenses or in commons bare where its at cost price, no sense of reality. So what should we expect. The upshot is, the publican have sent an e-mail to us and wasted time, it will be printed and its a waste of paper, just like all political stories. We promise this and that, then nothing changes. Simple FACT. More fool you if you believe it, more fool the reporter for submitting the story.........
Thank you for the opportunity of finding out David Cameron's point of view on many of the key items affecting the pub trade. At least I know where he stands on these Labour have forgotten that their core voters are most likely to be smokers (check the demographices). 22% of the adult population is a huge number of votes. Unfortunately, Cameron is a non-smoker who has failed to see the effect of the smoking ban on the pub trade. Labour messed up by insisting on a blanket ban, despite the larger vote for the alternative giving landlords choice. They thought it would be "too difficult to manage". David Cameron has shown that he does not have the bottle to give the people a choice. I don't want to be able to smoke everywhere I go, but would like to be able to choose between a smoking bar and a non-smoking bar.
I must admit I rather agree with Colin S below, I think the questions could have been a lot sharper and penetrating. Generally his answers sound encouraging but you don't feel he has a real grasp of why it's become so difficult to run a small business like a pub in the last decade or so. Which straws are breaking the camel's back. Smoking obviously bothers a lot of correspondents but not here so much. What bothers me more is things like why the Licencing Laws had been made so expensive and complicated by handing control to Local Authorities? Or why have Fire Certificates been withdrawn? Or why HACCP? Or HIMO regulations that make finding staff accomodation almost impossibe? Or why he dosn't think about new VAT thresholds or making council re-cycling services available to pubs or relaxing some employment and tax laws? The bottom line is viability. When that goes, it all goes. Put we are also under increased pressure from Regulations that demand total compliance and unquestionable guilt if we ever fail to comply, even for a moment. On that basis, I would guess all publicans are guilty of something. Publicans have become everybody else's target and sitting out front enjoying a pint is not the best place to see it. Bringing him here for a busy shift would open his eyes. And his ears.
Well said Steve, I totally agree, the government seam to want to blow us out of the water, we really need to show that we are not responsible for binge drinking or the type of chaos that goes on in town centers every weekend! while we are at it, we all to explain this to the police, as they are also very badly informed!
I am sorry, but stop complaining about smoking ban but get on and fight to prove that British pubs ARE great. We are possibly the most taxed industry out there, We are responsible apparently for binge drinking. Tell your MP that we are not, supermarkets and off licenses are, I don't do cut price booze, I don't sell the drinks that give instant hits, I am a responsible landlord, and we are currently lumbered with an irresponsible, misinformed government who believe in tax tax tax. Doesn't anybody remember the state of the country before Maggie, I do, and we have it all over again. But I have told my customers when I increased prices to cover the tax hike, 'don't blame me, if you don't like it, change your government' Simple isn't it?
David. You may think life has moved on since the smoking ban, but I and many others (including many non-smokers) do not. You have now lost my vote. There is nothing wrong with accommodating both smokers and non-smokers like many other countries in the world. By the way, since the ban my 'filthy habit' has increased from 20 a day to 35 -40 a day. Bans are definitely bad for your health. Instead of worrying what the electorate may think, what do you think if you exposed the correct science - I think we would have another Iraq war on our hands over the way the labour gov't has spun this so-called health issue
Once again a reporter this time James wilmore ,gives a politician an easy ride cameron said nothing that would make me think yes i can vote for him what a wasted opportunity to put our concerns to a high profile politician but no Jamie flunked it i think the next time the publican gets a chance to interview a high profile minister /politician can they not get some publicans to ask the questions its obvious the reporter knows nowt about pubs and the hardships we face
Hi Colin - thanks for your comments. I'm a bit perplexed as to why you think the opportunity was "wasted". As you can see, given a limited time, we covered most of the main areas of concern to licensees: red tape, tax, licensing, cheap supermarket booze and the smoking ban. Unfortunately we can do nothing about politicians' tendencies to follow their own agenda and give reasonably neutral answers to questions. If you want to discuss the areas you feel we should have covered, feel free to call me on 0207 9553713. James
What a load of rubbish. I would love to meet the landlords who run a local community pub like I do, that agrees we have to accept the smoking ban and move on. Most of us wont be hear in 5 years. There is no business. I visited 7 local pubs in my area tonight almost all agree business is down more than 50%. i say ban the politics and the muppets that introduce the bans.
Typical political bullsh*t. They will all say anything to get into power. Read it again and what does he actually say..........NOTHING !
What do you expect him to do: re-introduce smoking into pubs? The rabid media will accuse him of advocating killing people with second hand smoke. Lots of people are now also very, very intolerant of smoking, so any policy like that might encourage a handful of publicans to vote Tory, but will turn off scores on non-smoking voters.
When something like the smoking ban happens - that's it - it's done. No government would ever admit that they 'got it wrong' or bow to pressure groups even if they did agree with them. U turns make bad politics - not that that would be a suprise for a labour government! But changes to laws can happen if somebody else takes the lead - ie Cameron, and from reading this interview he does seem to have some more basic ideas about what to do to improve trade for suffering local pubs, rather than tackling the symptoms. For example reducing the tax on traditional ale and increasing it on PPS products is a great idea - how many scallys do you see in your local ordering a Black Sheep or Hydes Original - NONE they opt for the 'gets you bladdered and tastes like Vimpto' bottles drinks that cause violence, and antisocial behaviour. I for one would like to see them removed from pubs alltogether and tax being increased so that they are not as accessible for those members of society that insist on casuing trouble for the rest of us. But it doesn't matter who lives at number 10 or what they think, if we as publicans and pub goers don't vote with our feet and support our cause!
THERE IS A SILVER BULLET, BAN OFF-SALES TO THUGS! STOP LOSS-LEADING ALCOHOL SALES! STOP MOTORISTS FROM BEING ALLOWED TO BUY ALCOHOL WITH THIER PETROL! etc, etc!
Oh please! Cameron is attempting to buy the trade vote with a few mealy-mouthed words aimed at our favourite targets - supermarkets, underage kids and regulators! Fact is more and more people are voting with their feet and turning away from pubs and bars. If we want to get them back, then ignoring the problems or acting like a spolit child that needs this sort of petting isn't the way to do it. The grown-ups in the trade recognise that there are problems we need to tackle; if we want to be seen as good we have to be great.
We needed some heavyweight support and it is fantastic that The Publican has delivered this in securing this interview and I'm encouraged by what David Cameron had to say. We all need to work hard in making sure that this is a big issue in the coming months and not let it lie. As a small brewer in Nottingham we've launched our own consumer campaign for our own pubs see www.castlerockbrewery.co.uk/duty . I'd encourage all pubs and The Publican to get the message across to our pub visitors that they can make a differnence, afterall our customers are the folks with the votes.
Yes, people have accepted the smoking ban in that non-smokers can now go to a pub without breathing other people's smoke. I agree with that myself too. What I do not agree with is that every enclosed area in a pub should be non-smoking. You could have a totally separate area, with a separate extraction system, that the bar staff only enter once the pub is closed. This works well in several other EU countries. In a recent teletext poll, 84 per cent of people voted for something like this option. No matter how they fiddle the figures, by bundling in food for example, the fact is pubs are losing out badly David Cameron's opinions mean I'm now restricted to voting for either UKIP or the BNP. And we are supposed to have democracy in this country?
cameron says the ban is now the law and SAYS WE MUST MOVE ON. ITS NOT MOVING ON THAT IS HAPPENING . ITS HUNDREDS OF OUR PUBS THAT ARE MOVING OUT