Ban on pub signs to stop drink-driving

The small petrol stations in France selling Alcohol, in my experience, were in fact bars that also sold petrol. I filled up at such places and my impression is the patrons drank their draught beer or spirit at the bar and were not there to fill up their vehicle. If they walked there and treated as a local then nothing intrinsically wrong with that. I think was banned as seen as a bad example and the drinking atmosphere could encourage passing motorists filling up their car to also stop for a beer. Next thing will be cross channel ferries' bars banned with so many drivers on board.

Shouldn't some action be taken against this person - plainly they are over-reaching their powers. What is the formal complaint procedure to have this individual removed from their post or to have the Highways Agency brought to book. Abuse of power like this need to be tackled!

As s pub sign writer, I am appalled that a local authority would even consider this ban. Roadside directional signs are a large part of my business, So if this action sets a precedent accross the country, be prepared to see not only a lot of Inn closures, but also specialist sign companies going to the wall. It must be remembered that a large segment of the licensed trade rely mainly on the provision of food for their living, not wet sales. Less pubs = less tax revenue = less public sector pension funds.

What ever happened to the good old British Pub ? Where families use to gather before Christmas Dinner.Friends use to gather at weekends.Workers use to gather after work . They used to be a great place of great Social gathering.That was until we became a nanny state ..The poor pubs are losing money at a vast rate and allready many are going to the wall.. Pubs are part of our British Heritage ,the Americans flock to visit our typical old english pubs . We should be saving the heritage of Pubs not taking our beloved signs downs which we use so often to explain directions to people . Plus all the sign companies it will affect . As ex-local Authority myself ,I am more than aware of just how they work and how they come up with there no brainer ideas . Another do- gooder with a pen and too much time on thier hands .

qoute; Jacqui Ashman, local Highways Agency planning manager, said that the Black Dog’s sign was “potentially providing the temptation to drink and drive”. - IF THIS IS THE CASE, WHY ARE ALL PETROL STATIONS ALLOWED TO ENTICE MOTORIST IN BY SELLING CUT-PRICE ALCOHOL ?? why not tackle these irresponsible retailers, before furthe persecution of our fantastic pubs ? France has already banned petrol stations from selling alcohol, let's follow suit, 95% of drink drive related incidents would dissapear overnight!

I'm really a very passive sort but politicians with such warped thinking really ought to be put down, or at least exiled to a remote island and prevented from breeding. When will they figure out that the more responsibility they take away, the more irresponsibility they create?

That's it, surley that has to be the last straw , why dont all those council bods just close all the PUBLIC houses in their area and be done with it . They wont , for two reasons .... 1 There will be much less money coming in due to all the loss of business rates being paid by already struggling licenses . 2 They will have nothing to justify their sorry exsistance , and may have to turn to more pressing issues such as loose paving stones ( not half as much fun as trying to destroy a centuries old industry . For too long councils have picked on the pubs and seen them as a soft target , this now must stop and the lady from Wiltshire should stand up and explain her ridiculous comments in more detail , and why she wouldn't stop supermarkets and garages putting signs up both of which she will find sell alcohol , and alot cheaper. I look forward to her respnse. She can also be advised that pubs many years ago were known as inns , where the weary traveller may rest , feed oh and if he or she are in control of their faculties take a small drink , thank god for pub signs , they were there long before her job existed .

I Hate People Who Don`t Drink, When They Get Up In The Morning, That`s The Best They Are Going To Feel All Day.

This is all probably stems from a combination of more control, authorities justification of their positions or simply supposition. In essence, what else should one really expect from a communistic government?!

And so the government onslaught on the hard working small business owner continues. The next thing will be to outlaw pubs completely. My grandfather fought for freedom in this country and many of his generation laid down their life for it. I imagine they'll be turning in their graves at the state of our country today. Hang your heads in shame.

Whilst I agree with everyone else on here that this ruling is utterly stupendous (in its stupidity), I can't help thinking that it is only borne from the ongoing cultural move towards zero-responsibility for the individual? It has little to do with the government, or even the official(s) involved the decision; it's just one more example of how we're all becoming trapped on the inward-spiralling path towards a childlike adulthood, where we expect to do nothing, and take no blame, for ourselves. It is logically identical to obese people suing McDonalds because they sold them super-size meals that 'made them fat', or the propensity of other signage telling us of the uber-obvious, such as signs on hot taps saying "warning - hot water", or 'no smoking' signs on every building in a nation where we know you can't smoke anywhere in an enclosed public space, or signs in airports and shops telling us we can't abuse staff, or... the list is almost endless...

Not sure which is more ludicrous - this story or the EU requirement that I call my delicious Sublimelle 9% "reduced alcohol fermented grapejuice' rather than "wine" . Bill Warry Chateau Select Wine Club

Who the hell puts these people in a position where they have this kind of power?

Interesting that dotted all over Wiltshire and the rest of the country are brown 'tourist' roadsigns pointing towards country pubs. Yet do one yourself and that's a no no.

How very silly. We often stop at pubs for refreshment on a long journey. They have more character than Motorway service stations. Of course you can buy soft drinks and most people will. If anybody really wants to drink and drive, there is nothing much than could stop them. Drinking alcohol and driving is stupid and dangerous but education, not petty restrictions, is the way to prevent it. Barmy!

By this same reasoning any pub with a car park must be promoting drink driving. So close any pub with a car park. It then follows that nowhere can sell alcohol which has a car park. So close all supermarkets which sell alcohol AND have a car park. That should do it - TeeTotal Britain.

This is utter nonsense. There should be a ban on idiots banning things. Or just a ban on idiots.

this is just another case of Big Brother and Nanny State colliding to try and ruin the trade further. Amusingly, I had just been having a discussion this week with my wife that we should look in to getting a sign put on the nearby A11 in an attempt to bring more food trade to our lunch time & weekend business. They can sit & drink coffee for all I care, they don't have to have alcohol.

This is just another case of a PSP (Public Sector Parasite), with a more than generous pension and benefit package, who is no doubt almost impossible to dismiss, yet again biting the hand of wealth-creating private business, which feeds it. This action is just typical of the big brother state described in George Orwell's 1984. Unfortunately George Orwell gave his book an incorrect title it should have been 1997.

Just as a thought could you not rename the sign as a restaurant or maybe a hotel (if you have letting rooms) as surely they can't stop people wanting food or a bed to sleep in. This is one of the most ridicules ones I have heard in a long time.

Every time I read about more stupidaty in the UK I realise what a fantastic country Canada is and how glad I am to have moved here

She said: "No alcohol is allowed to be served or consumed in service stations on motorways as a matter of principle and we would wish to continue this principle by not encouraging drivers to break their journey in a public house." Re: Jackie Ashman's comments above. I have been in many service stations across the country and have been able to buy a bottle of wine with my meal. This woman obviously lives a very insular life if she's never eaten in a motorway cafe. But one doesn't have to drink alcohol if one doesn't want to do so. My husband and I travel frequently between France and England and stop regularly for breaks in motorway cafes, but I've yet to see anyone abusing the facilities offered. Why can't people live and let live. We're all adults and know that pubs sell soft drinks and coffee as well as alcohol, and most pubs these days depend for their livelihood on being able to provide good food at reasonable prices in comfortable surroundings.

I agree with the bulk of the sentiments below, this is utter madness and coming from a Conservative Council where the majority of MPs are also Tories, I think that we might be getting an insight into what the country may be like Cameron and his cronies slide back in. As a precaution, I'm already starting to investigate overseas options but many English speaking countries are as bad if not worse than here. My brother lives in Oz and he says that the stop and test powers that police implement in Oz are draconian, especially after public events when they test everyone and cause massive congestion. Not to mention that their alcohol level, like may other countries is lower than ours.

I fell foul of this about 20 years ago when someone from our local council ordered us to remove our pub sign as, according to them, we didn't have planning permission. I did some research and found out that :- On the 24th day of June 1700 King William III by an act of parliament that every Inn Keeper, Alehouse Keeper, Sutlers, Victuallers and other retailers of Ale and Beer and ever other person or persons keeping a Public House in the Kingdom of England MUST have a sign hanging from their public house.This is the same act that requires us to mark our pint glasses with a crown and the Monarchs Initials. On council then removed there objection and the pub sign stayed.

England has now completely disappeared up its own arse. I am sick to the back teeth of it - so I have left. I now live in a place where you are allowed to live as you please within certain well defined limits and where pathetic (indeed pitiful) notions such as this would be subject to the public mockery they deserve. Im not saying where I am in case the likes of Jacquie Ashman decides to move here and make everyone else's life as sad and miserable as hers. She must have deep psychological issues that need addressing.

As a retired Police Officer I can only say 'Words fail me, please see sketch' As a currently serving Local Authority Licensing Officer I can only suggest that if this is the view of the whole council and their officers, they should all hang their heads in shame. They should concentrate on their priorities, not on pushing people around. They are paid to serve, not pose.

Just when you thought that there were no more stupid do-gooder initiatives... this pops up! Do these people think before they act?This should increase the closures of pubs from 6 per day to 10. Will some one lend me £250k so I can take a lease in Australia where I may not be held responsible for the health, safety and general wellbeing of the public ! yours in liquidation Neil Martin

It is quite obvious from the sign displayed by this pub that they are promoting food. Look at the large lettering - what does it tell you? Does wiltshire council not realise that pubs sell soft drinks as well as alcohol? It is about time councils realise people are not stupid when driving.

I left Britain last year. I have bought and sold several pubs but could take no more of brain-meltingly stupid policy such as this. Take down Jacqui Ashmon. Leave the signs alone!

Although I am on the other side of the pond now I still follow the Publican daily and it makes me realize just how lucky my wife and I are for seeing the writing on the wall in 2004 and selling out when we did. I entered the trade in 1968 and as soon as the Local Councils and the No Smoking Lobby got involved I just knew the running of a Puplic House and all the life style I once so loved, would slowly die. Get rid of Labour and the Councils and the No Smokers Lobbyists, and that life style I once so loved will return.

OMG! I can see it now. Transport cafes & kebab takeaways will be told to take down their signs in case drivers pull in and buy something which contributes to their obesity. Get a life Wiltshire - stop this PC madness! At this rate what the hell WILL be legal outisde our front doors?

WHAT ELSE ARE THEY GOING TO THROW AT US. WE ARE TRYING DESPERATELY TO EARN A LIVING. WE PRACTICE SAFE DRINKING AND DO NOT ENCOURAGE DRINK DRIVING. TO OFFER FOOD AND REST AFTER A LONG DRIVE CAN ONLY BE A GOOD THING. WHY DO THESE PEOPLE THINK THAT THE GENERAL PUBLIC HAVE NO COMMON SENSE. WE AND OTHER PUBLIC HOUSES ALWAYS OFFER AN ALTERNATIVE TO ALCOHOL. THERE ARE SUCH THINGS AS TEA & COFFEE AS WELL AS COLD SOFT DRINKS. WE ARE HAVE A VERY TOUGH TIME OF IT AS IT IS. TO TAKE AWAY A EASY FORM OF ADVERTISING WILL KILL MOST OF US WHO RELY ON PASSING TRADE. WHO PAYS THESE PEOPLE SURLY THEY CAN USE THEIR TIME ON MORE IMPORTANT THINGS INSTEAD OF PICKING ON THE PUB TRADE AND TREAT PEOPLE LIKE GROWN UPS AND ALLOW PEOPLE TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THEMSELVES.

Does Jacqui Ashman have a boss? Get rid of her, she has not got the brain she was born with, and is obviously very dangerous.

Makes you wonder who is behind all these stupid judgements, could it be the supermarkets? The less alcohol we sell the more they sell!! I don’t think that it is the small pubs etc. that cause most the problems, but cheap booze available from the big stores at cost or less. You should see the number of drunk underage people causing trouble, most seem to get their drink from, guess who, supermarkets.

How would I know where to stop for a pee??!! Seriously, as a pub owner, this is the most rediculous and unthought out theory! Better off changing the sign to show "Public Convenience"!!

I presume that this ban will be extended to all Supermarkets - drivers could also be tempted into them to buy even cheaper booze to drink drive on.

What gives Jacqui Ashman the right to make dictats on the hoof. The quango Highways Agency are in no position to make regulations without going through the democratically elected Wiltshire County Council. Where is her evidence that the 'Pub break' influences drinking and driving? Similar concerns are now surfacing regarding the efficacy of speed cameras. Will Jacqui Ashman reimburse the landlady for loss of income and employment?

What an insult to Toad, Ratty, Mole, and Badger. I live in Kenneth Grahame's home village and ran the pub nearest his abode which he would most certainly have patronised. Any of his characters would undoubtedly have frequented the place too, and indeed there are many present day incarnations who do. The pub sign is both ancient and in need of more care than it's current owners are prepared to support, but it would not be well recieved by our community if it were removed. My BDM stated that "David" would be aghast at this suggestion. His pubs however have largely lost there signs in favour of fibreglass plaques. Believe it if you will.

If nothing else this has highlighted an urgent need for training. Training in 'Simple Common Sense' !!

If councils and local government believe that pubs are only places where people get blind drunk and smoke themselves stupid - then these rules will just get worse. They need to wake up to the changing role of the pub in our society or pretty soon there wont be any.... oh yes Guns don't kill people - rappers do

Sorry, guys, you must have been on the sauce. It's still September, not April 1st. Er..how will we be able to tell the spoof stories when it really is April Fools' Day?

I left England several years ago, thankfully. All of our service stations, and everywhere else sells acohol. They will ban pub car-parks next to remove even more temptation. (Maybe I shouldn't have said that, you never know who will read this)

Does that mean that most drivers in Europe were you can buy a beer at the service stations will drink and drive.... NO!!! When will the people stand up against these idiots who make such mind blowing stupid rules.

Should all pub signs also be taken down? What about putting boarding around pubs so that passer bys cannot see the pubs?

If we were to take this argument to it's logical conclusion are we to assume that Roadside Pubs/Coaching Houses are to have all their signage removed? Plainly they are in full view of the passing motorists. Are we also to apply the same rule to town centres where the requirement would then be for all premises/ shops/ supermarkets to remove their signage. What utter nonsense this proposal is. I find it hard to believe that someone in a more senior position to this highways officer has not had the neccesary common sense to overule such an obviously stupid decision. I was under the impression that Public Houses have a duty under older legislation that obliges them to be open to the public for the sale of refreshments at reasonable times.

Why don't they just close all the public houses in Britain down now and have done with it? My reaction when I read this story was, I'm afraid, considerably less than ladylike and rymed quite nicley with the things you put oars into... What about garages with off licenses? Will they also be penalised like this? The Highways Agency should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves and Wiltshire County Council need a short sharp kick.

This just goes to show that Councils should never be given responsibility for managing anything. This will have been dreamt up by some jobsworth who has never had a proper job in their life and whose sole disfunction in life is to attend endless committees to dream up stupid ideas such as this. My pub pays £10,000 a year in rates to keep morons such as this in non jobs that would be better carried out by Toad, Mole, Rat and Badger.

I drive past many a pub sign and it doesn't get me to want to go in and have a drink. Being the only driver in my family l treasure my licence so there is no chance of me stopping at a pub

Yet another stupid idea thought up by the Wiltshire Council. I unfortunately live just inside Wiltshire, one hundred yards to the west and I would escape into Hampshire.

I am afraid to hear this next bit of bad news for us. Maybe it is a plan to completely abolish pubs and have only trendy wine bars, lets face it this 24 hour drinking law was installed to get rid of binge drinking. Perhaps in their minds if the country removes all of its pubs then binge drinking, antisocial behaviour and the government debt will disappear!!!!

Unbelievable,another idiot trying to tell us how to live.No wonder most of us have had enough of this country!

Unfortunately I agree with the sign removal lobby. I once saw a sign for Cardiff and ended up 300 miles away from my home in Manchester.

At the Vale of the White Horse Inn in Minety Wiltshire we serve more food than drink and about 20% of are drinks sales are fruit juices or other soft drinks. The idea that a road side Pub or Inn is encouraging drivers to consume alcohol is both misconcieved and decades out-of-date. This decision needs to be exposed as being obsurd and over-turned. If I can help please let me know

What about all the brown signs supplied by the council/highways department advertising local attractiosn, many of them licensed? Oh of course they bring in revenue, silly me. No one is responsible for their own behaviour anymore, if I drink and drive it MUST be someone's fault, surely I can' be held responsible for my own actions! Insanity pure and simple, the lunatics have taken over the country.

Whit? I mean, really, Whit? Time for the trade bodies to step up to the crease. This is what we pay membership fees for, for them to vociferously lobby on our behalf to get this kind of knuckle-headed "lightbulb moment" thinking hit out the park. How much spare time do these people have?

Another highways jobsworth, pubs provide a neccesary service to travellers,drivers do not have to consume alcohol and most responsible drivers do not,if this policy is adopted I for one will be complaining to my local county councillor about meddling bureaucrats, Why is it in France that all motorways serve alcohol but I have never seen any abuse.

To follow this stupidity to it's natural conclusion, I guess councils will remove all 'brown tourist signs' to places where alcohol is available 'to drivers', including National Trust properties and small towns by-passed by new roads, and of course pubs beside all roads will have to remove their signage! I really don't know where these people were when the good Lord was handing out the brains!

Nanny state gone mad again. Are individuals no longer responsible to drive into a pub, order non alcoholic beverages and then drive home or to there destination in a sensible and sober manner. What next, no signs advertising chocolate in case you are tempted to stuff your face and this could cause obescity. No signs advertising football matches in case you feel the need to go and punch an opposing fan. BROWN & BLAIR have brought this upon our once proud nation, it is not what my grandparents fought for, freedom of mind and choice stands at the heart of Britishness, shame on these beaurocratic cowards, show yourselfs if you dare !

Absolutely pathetic! When are these nanny types going to give this industry a break. Signage does not cause such anti-social behavior asdrink driving - ignorance and stupidity does. We are all adults and we all know the potential risks. Give these hardworking publicans a break.

It only takes one idiot in a council chamber to shout loud enough for the press to hear them. If this story has any strength to it, then all the pub signs next to any road would have to come down to offer a level playing field. The councillor who has probably got his name in the local rag will have a smile from ear to ear at the moment. And if it does come to fruition, the first road accident in the area could probably be blamed on the fact the driver couldn’t find a safe place to have a break, remember there is usually more than one person in a car and I as a driver never drink alcohol and drive. Many signs for Pizza Hut would have to be removed as well, they serve alcohol. Don’t you think the whole story is a bit silly or is it me?

Do these people go into pubs! We sell non alcoholic beverages as well you know! most of us now sell tea and coffee as well. We are a mile from the main Caernarfon/ pwllheli road. without signs no one would know we existed. this is just another nail in our coffin!!!

What a stupid story. Signs dont make you break the law. what about if they only said that the place served soft drinks, or the passengers wanted a drink, or even god forbid if the driver wanted one perfectly legal pint. Jacqui Ashman, go and do something productive with your life and leave the pubs alone.