Lager brewery battles CAMRA

Ian - thanks for the comment, I don't happen to think my comments are pathetic, they're actually just stating a few facts. I don't believe beer should be dispensed straight from the fermenting vessel, quite obviously, and if you believe that from what I said then maybe it's your intelligence that's approaching the 'pathetic' marker. I just happen to believe, as many people do outside of 'sAMRA'S inner circle, that their parameters are far too strict and subjective and can sometimes do harm to the very thing they're trying to promote. They do a lot of good work, I just think some of it is a little misguided...

Chris - I quite agree with you, but that's my whole point; if CAMRA sold their policies as being just their opinion then that's okay, but they don't, they sell them as THE definitive 'real ale' policies, and anything else is just incorrect. They don't owe my business anything, you're also quite right, but they CAN harm innocent businesses indirectly.

At the risk of asking a dumb question, why does a lager not have to come into contact with CO2 for it to gain CAMRA's approval? Does it affect its taste?

Must say I loved the comments. I have never read so much completely inaccurate rubbish. Lets get it straight - I have worked on the German/Czech bar at the Great British Beer Festival for more than 20 years. In that time we have NEVER dispensed any beer using CO2. Nor will we ever do so. I have also enjoyed Meantime's cask beers in a pub across from the staff accommodation. If they were willing to allow their lager to be served without estraneous gas there would have been no problem. The great German and Czech beers suffer no deterioration when served naturally so I cannot imagine that any British brewed lager would do so either. To name but one, Harviestoun's Schiehallion lager has won awards at least twice in the Champion Beer of Britain (at the Great British Beer Festival) and I can assure you that no estraneous gas was used in its dispense. To conclude - a campaign for real lager was formed many years ago. It died of natural causes - lack of any intelligent support. I have little doubt that this new endeavour will suffer a similar fate.

Burton on Trent CAMRA are at fault here, they should know what the CAMRA guidelines are and stick to them. Freedom should have been made aware that CO2 dispense is not permitted at CAMRA festivals. Any CAMRA festival that does serve 'Foreign' beers by CO2 dispense is acting against CAMRA policy and should cease the practice. Steve W's comments are rather pathetic, what sort of Universe does he inhabit where the beers are dispensed direct from the fermenting tank? My experience of pubs dates back to the 60's, if his really do date back to Anglo Saxon times I expect to be reading about him next in the Guinness book of records. Beers sold on the Bieres Sans Frontieres bar at GBBF are never, and have never been dispensed by CO2 whilst I have worked on it (since 1995). I would have known about it, I was the bar manager for five of those years. An finally, the original Freedom beers brewed in Parsons Green have been sold at GBBF when the Miltant wing of CAMRA declared the INdependant Republic of Fulham so that we could have the rather excellent beer on sale on BSF.

There is a lot of stubbornness on both sides of this tempest in a teapot. Nothing prevents a lager brewer from picking up a pitch-lined wooden keg to use in gravity dispense; it's a time tested method still employed in Bavaria, and is also used to dispense other classic styles in Dusseldorf and Cologne. What's preventing Freedom from doing this? Also curious about this "LOBI" ... wasn't there a CAMAL (Campaign for Authentic Lager) at one point?

Steve ~ it is right and proper that a consumer group sets the parameters for what it believes. CamRK, the Campaign for Real Karaoke insists on the specification of microphones/amplifiers/available songs. Its frustrating when our opinions fall outside ~ but that is the nature of consumer groups. They champion what they believe.They aren't there to boost your business.

CAMRA's policies of sticking to such pathetic rules are what will ultimately be their undoing. Where on Earth do you draw the line at what's acceptable and 'traditional' and what's not? Even their existing rules on dispense break with 'tradition', as the only truly 'traditional' way to serve beer is straight from the vat in which it was brewed, still cloudy, by using your drinking vessel! How can having an ideal temperature range, for example, be 'traditional', because it needs, by definition, some form of modern cooling technology (unless you're lucky enough to have a natural cellar that fits within their parameters)? They need to decide if they are truly upholders of tradition, in which case they must throw out any form of 'modern' interference (such as cooling, hops, fining, metal casks, plastic keystones, etc) or if they just want traditional products made with modern methods for a modern market, in which case things that are added just to improve product quality that they currently ban (such as CO2 blankets) should be allowed. I always have an issue with anyone who claims to be upholding 'tradition' because, unless your principles go right back to the point where the thing being protected was actually invented, all you're protecting is the little bit of history that you personally prefer. It's the same argument with 'traditional' English pubs; where do you draw the line? Is it back to when lager was introduced in the 60s? Is it back to when they had sawdust on the floor in the 19th century? Or maybe the Saxon alehouses? Or is it all the way back to the Roman taverns?

If CAMRA will happily allow 'Foreign' keg beers at their festivals, then why not British ones? I can understand that keg beer promotion may not fit in with CAMRA's aims (it is a cask beer group after all), but this is double standards.

If this is the case that Meantime dispense method is contrary to CAMRA rules, then why were foreign beers/lagers exhibited at the GBBF when they use exactly the same dispense methods. Seems to me dont do as we do!! Also Meantime some excellent bottle conditioned real ales.

CAMRA's over-reaction was quite pathetic really, but in line with how out of touch they have become. What possible harm would it have done to allow this brewery to exhibit at the event, possibly with a warning for next time? Lager isn't the enemy CAMRA seem to believe it is. Nu-look CAMRA is it's own worst enemy.

A great bit of free PR for the brewery, though.